019 – How to Engage With Muslims (Abdullah Sameer on The Secular Jihadists)
I was on the “Secular Jihadists” podcast on October 4, 2018, with Armin Nabavi and Ali Rizvi. The topic was “How to discuss with Muslims”
Abdullah Sameer is an increasingly popular and influential atheist writer and YouTuber who was once a very religious Muslim. He preached Islam for fifteen years and founded popular Islamic websites like Light Upon Light and VerseByVerseQuran. In 2016, he announced that he left Islam in a controversial video that is now nearing a million views. In this episode we will talk about his background—his father was Ismaili and his mother Sunni—and his story of embracing religion only to leave it. We will talk about his remarkable talent of engaging all kinds of people in constructive dialogue, be they Muslims, ex-Muslims, or others. We will also talk about how other ex-Muslims can use platforms like YouTube and blogs to widen this conversation as he has. Don’t miss this!
YouTube version of this podcast: https://youtu.be/VdNXq9entM8
Timestamps:
0:00 Introductions
3:15 Abdullah’s Facebook ban (Anti-Muslim bigotry test).
6:45 Abdullah’s background – How Abdullah transitioned from being a liberal Ismaili to a Sunni Muslim to become an atheist.
11:17 The element of secrecy in the Ismaili community. The original “assassins”.
13:40 Slanders that Abdullah receives (” You were never a true Muslim”).
Light up light website.
15:15 Why Abdullah deep-dived into Islam? Did he Explore any other sects of Shia that are closer to Ismailism? Why not promote Ismailism given it is progressive instead of Sunnism?
26:30 Parallels between Christianity and Ismailism
27:30 -28:50 technical problems
28:50 Did Abdullah used to consider himself an Islamic preacher?
31:20 Is it easier to turn a nominal Muslim into a very religious Muslim? Abdullah’s process of doubting the stories in the Quran and other religious texts.
35:30 The Muslim response to Abdullah’s social media posts about leaving Islam.
39:20 The issue of the burden of proof VS sowing seeds of doubt in Muslims. Street epistemology.
45:05 Was Abdullah’s journey fueled by internal doubts only or were there other external factors or community?
47:25 A lot of information that refutes common claims in the Quran or hadiths or apologetics is available to academia but not readily accessible to the common Muslims.
49:52 How much knowledge is needed for someone to be able to discuss Islam with Muslims and have an impact?
52:40 Is Muhammad a pedophile? The problems with Muhammad’s biography and marriage to Aisha. Are these arguments effective on Muslims?
1:05:15 Other forms of protests/activism (burning the Quran, drawing Muhammad) to challenge taboos and limits of free speech. Are they effective?
1:18:15 Armin’s rebuttal to the claim that more aggressive methods of blaspheming will push Muslims away instead of engaging in the discussion. Death threats.
1:24:45 How does Abdullah respond to Muslims who say “You don’t have enough academic credentials to question/critique Islam”?
1:30:00 Responding to the claim that ex-Muslim activists are targeting the low-hanging fruits and not discussing their issues with Islamic scholars. Bringing Islamic scholars to give a response at ex-Muslims events.
1:39:15 How can we discuss the topic of women removing the hijab without making it seem like a personal attack on colleagues?
1:43:11 Abdullah Sameer’s views on flying donkey (inside joke with Harris Sultan)
1:45:00 When Muslims leave Islam do they keep some cultural aspects of Islam? Mild apostasy VS transformative apostasy.
1:48:40 The “only good” thing out of Islam
1:49:10 Did Abdullah lose any family members because of apostasy?
1:50:20 Social media handles and final remarks.
Podcast: Play in new window | Download